STI race-guns

[Mohawk]

Gentlemen,
More and more I'm seeing these M1911-type STI race-guns around Houston and I'm really impressed with them (from a superficial standpoint). I even called STI to have a catalog sent to me. But I haven't yet met anyone who has one chambered for anything other than .38 Super, .45 ACP, or .40 S&W and I'm wondering whether or not any of you do (e.g. 10mm Auto, .45 Super, or .40 Super). If so, how does the pistol handle these hotter cartridges and what is the projected service life (in terms of # of rounds) of these guns. That is to say, are they breakable, like the Colt Delta Elite or S&W 1006 were with reasonably warm loads?

Dave

[CoonDawg]

High $$$$$, you can do better for less.

The 10mm is #1 in my book but, I do like the 45 and the 45 Super can get pretty hot. Ace Hindman son is still doing conversions out of Kerrville.

I might be your way on tuesday, wont know until monday evening and I'll try calling you again.

[dieseldude]

If you want a hot rod 45,ck out the 460 Rowland conversion,Clarks website.Use standard 45 acp dies to load the cartridges.Brass can be obtained through Starlilne.the conversion is 275.00.The ballistics are pretty impressive. I am going to order one here in very near future.

[Mohawk]

DD,
Thanks, I'll have to take a looksie at that .460 Rowland piece.

Lorenzo,
You and I pretty much see eye to eye when it comes to firearms (e.g. we both fancy a number of the more unpopular rifle and handgun cartridges). But the Glock 20 -- the world's only truly successful 10mm Auto handgun -- still leaves a great deal to be desired. For one, it's short barrel (4.4" including a comparatively long chamber section) contributes nothing to the actualization of the cartridge's potential. I chronographed a bunch of loads I assembled for shear speed using AA#7 (one of the best propellants for this cartridge) and they ended up coming out of the muzzle doing almost 200 fps less than the data projected they would! STI offers a longslide model that has a 6" barrel. And I promise you, the added 1.6" of length -- all of which is bore length -- would mean a huge difference in performance even withstanding control of all other variables!

Also, the Glock design -- and all other designs, for that matter -- do not lend themselves to the same level of autonomous accuracy that do the M1911-type guns. This, I think, is in no small measure one of the reasons why they have remained so popular for almost a century now.

Finally, the STI longslide with its heavy frame option is extremely heavy (> 45 ounces) and has a hybrid (half steel, half polymer) frame. Both of these contribute greatly to manageability of this vicious little cartridge.

As for the expense of these pistols (> $2,000 with any considerable amount of build-out in the way of options/appointments) and those of the only other pistols that could legitimately be called their 'peers' (i.e. Les Baer's and Wilson's), I am undeterred -- especially after I have seen how incredibly superior is their overall performance compared to the designs of the world's other major handgun producers.

Lorenzo, when we get together we'll shoot a few handguns. Then, after you've drilled with my Les Baer and Wilson handguns, tell me if you think it would be imprudent to add an STI Eagle in 10mm Auto to their company.

Regards,
Dave

[BigJ]

Mohawk
Used to play the racegun game got to old and knee's
are to weak now that;s why i'm play with rifle's now
But had a STI in 38 super and 40 s&w good for paper and playing I think thay offer it in some larger cal.

[Mohawk]

Big J,
Indeed, STI does offer several of their models in the calibers 10mm Auto, .45 Super, and .40 Super. I'm just concerned about making the same mistake with STI that I made with Colt and then Smith & Wesson when, some years back, I purchased a Delta Elite followed by a 1006 about three years later. Both guns just couldn't handle warm, much less hot, loads. I say this, of course, not only because both guns would stop cycling (for reasons I never figured out) after around 50 rounds fired with short pauses between magazines, but because both guns ultimately broke altogether (i.e. the friggin' frames actually cracked on both guns). So at this point, the only reason I have any greater faith in the basic STI 2011 design is because a competitive IPSC shooter that often drills in an enclosure right next to the last stretch along the firing line at the range I frequent, which is often where I show up to train with my rifles, explained to me that it (the STI 2011) is better suited to handle the subject cartridge(s) by virtue of the polymer material in the lower part of the frame. This guy competes with an STI .38 Super for which he said that he sometimes loads super hot just for fun, and that the gun has never failed to function any differently than with relatively cool competition ammo. He just said that one has to change out the soft-rubber recoil buffer at the frame end of the recoil spring guide rod immediately after a session of any considerable duration wherein hot loads are used.

What do you think about an STI 2011 chambered for the 10mm Auto?

Regards,
Dave

[BigJ]

Mohawk
We loaded those guns up hot just remember to get fully supported barrels ad use recoil buffers that will stop
lots of broken parts

[Mohawk]

Big J,
Copy that!

Dave

[BigJ]

Mo I carry a 45 acp officers model all the time it has stopped everthig I shot with it also a 40 s&w glock
like it to oe or the other on my side all the time

[CoonDawg]

Dave could have used you help last week (med wise, had a 55 gallon drum fall and catch me in the lower back)

Now what you need to try is a G-20 with a 6" KKM barrel and a 22# spring if using a DE I'ld go with a 24# 200 grain Precision Bullets behind 10.0 grs Blue Dot will get you 1300+ fps even in the upper 70* weather.

I know that I don't have to tell you or anyone else to work up to that load but it will do the trick!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mohawk]

Lorenzo,
Holy mackeral! Do you have any idea how much energy a 200-gr bullet moving 1300 fps will generate? That's unbelieveably potent for a little auto-loader.

Incidentally, I first saw those 6" barrels for the Glock 20 at the 2001 Shot Show in New Orleans. I thought about getting one, too. I just couldn't reconcile the idea of the extra 1.6" with the fact that all of it would be sticking out the end of the slide. I have pestered Glock about manufactuing a larger gun (i.e. a long-slide version of their #20 model). But they insist that there wouldn't be any demand for such a gun.

Also, I looked at that Dan Wesson piece in 10mm Auto. Wow! Nice price for a new revolver of that reputation. I just can't get past the idea of having to use half-moon clips to secure the cartridges in the cambers.

Oh yeah, and one last thing. Don't think I wouldn't be stoked to have breakfast with ya any morning you pull into Houston (given that I'm not working). So don't be afraid to call . . . any time!!!

Thanks,
Dave

PS - Be careful, Lo! 55-gallon drums that are full of anything can disable you for good!

[CoonDawg]

That DW 10mm Razorback has just about all the custom features you would want in a 1911 style of pistol and being a limited run of 500 doesn't hurt either.

200grs at 1300+ is SMOKIN ;D but man it does the job. Use to have some 210 grain Pin Grabbers (looked like a sawthoothed bullet, and when fired can you say skill saw ) hence the name Pin Grabber, they were made for bowling pin shoots. If you know anything about bowling pins how hard and smooth they are.

They would take a BITE out of crime too ;D

[boondocker]

Hi fellas

Yes recoil buffers are a must on the hot loads. Found out the hard way. Boon

[CoonDawg]

Hope you didn't get hurt.

But know what you mean, my first experience at hand loading hot 300gr 45acp taught me that

Always believed that you throw the heaviest and fastest bull you can. Kinda makes up for the adrinieal rush you might be under

Bon welcome to the family

[mstarling]

STI makes fine raceguns! Their frames hold up better then almost anything else ... especially the Para which tends to crack inside the trigger groove in the frame.

Back when there was some thought that IPSC major might be limited to 40 caliber and up, I built a 40 S&W single column race gun for the hellovit.

I loaded the ammo to almost the same length as 10mm ... so it really was a short cased 10 mm. The gun was built pretty much as a standard bank-vault strength pistol ... ramped barrel and all.

Four years ago I started hunting again and could not find the scope that normally goes on my 41Mag revolver. Looking around the safe, the only thing that was available for a quick deer hunt was this piece. It is fitted with a Holosight. Took it out with 135 grain Noslers loaded at 1450 fps.

Hit a doe with it at 60 yards. She took a step just as I pulled the trigger. Impact was in the left front chest just inside the leg. Bullet detonated on impact ... completely destroying everything in front of the diaphragm. She did a front summersault and landed dead on the spot. Did not make a mess in the boiler room, by the way.

Wound was frightening. I can't even imagine pointing that thing at a person (am a licensed concealed carry)! Would be instanteously lethal.

Bottom line is ... don't look down your nose at the 40 S&W which if loaded properly can get 10mm ballistics. Do make sure you build to max strength specs. Do find a bullet more strongly built than the 135 gr Nosler.

Lots of fun.

mike